From:        info@markengrabbing.de
Date:        Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:36:41 +0200
Subject:     Aktion gegen Markengrabbing - 24.09.1999
Reply-to:    info@markengrabbing.de


Nach ein paar langen Arbeitstagen habe ich es nun endlich wieder
einmal geschafft: Ein Update der Seiten auf markengrabbing.de ist
da! Das wurde aber auch Zeit ;-)

In der letzten Woche hat sich wohl Einiges getan und so ist es mir
eine Freunde, die folgenden Nachrichten vorzustellen:

+++ Prozeß um "webspace"

Der erste prozeß bzgl. einer einstweiligen Verfügung wurde am
17.09.1999 in Nürnberg geführt. Angetreten waren der
Internetprovider Troidl mit anwaltlicher Vertretung sowie die
anwaltliche Vertretung des Markeninhabers Thielker.
Der Prozeß endete in einem Vergleich ...

--> http://www.markengrabbing.de/troidl.htm


+++ Akte99 (SAT1) berichtet über unsere Aktion

Die wohl angenehmste Überraschung traf mich (eher zufällig) am
vergangenen Dienstag, während ich Fernsehen schaute. Plötzlich
wurde dort in Akte99 über den Fall "webspace" u.a. berichtet.
Unser FvG wurde nicht genannt, dafür wurde unsere Aktion sehr
gelobt :-)) Dies spiegelte sich natürlich auch in den Zugriffszahlen
wieder ...

--> http://www.markengrabbing.de/news.htm


+++ Liste der Unterstützer aktualisiert

Es hat nun fast zwei Wochen gedauert, aber jetzt ist sie endlich
aktualisiert ... die Liste der Unterstützer!
Bei allen, die auf die Eintragung so lange warten mußten, möchte
ich mich herzlich entschuldigen! Also, schaut einmal vorbei und
klickt den einen oder anderen interessanten Link an ;-)
Ach ja, und bitte versucht auch weiterhin, aktive Unterstützer für
uns zu gewinnen !!

--> http://www.markengrabbing.de/unterstuetzer.htm


+++ "www." von Talkline GmbH geschützt

Nun ist auch "www." als Marke geschützt. Die Talkline GmbH hat
dies durchgeführt. Näheres versuchen wir bei denen nun
herauszubekommen ...

--> http://www.markengrabbing.de/news.htm


+++ Surftips versenden

Als neue Möglichkeit, unsere Aktion aktiv zu unterstützen, habe
ich nun den Versand eines sog. "Surftips" eingebaut. Jetzt könnt
ihr Freunde und Bekannte per Email direkt von unserer Seite mit
einer Email auf unsere Aktion hinweisen.
Bitte macht reichlich Gebrauch hiervon, da jede Unterstützung
zählt!

--> http://www.markengrabbing.de/surftip.htm


+++ Hintergrundinformationen werden aufgebaut

Nachdem das Abstimmungsverhältnis der letzten Wochen
eindeutig einen Bedarf nach Hintergrundinformationen aufzeigt,
habe ich in den letzten Tagen begonnen, diese auf
Markengrabbing.de bereitzustellen.
Natürlich ist dies jetzt am Anfang noch recht kläglich, aber es wird
schon ...
Auch hier würde ich mich übrigens über aktive Hilfe von Euch sehr
freuen. Insbesondere sind hier die Rechtsanwälte unter Euch
angesprochen, die vielleicht die ein oder andere Abhandlung über
das Markenrecht veröffentlichen wollen ...
Aber auch ansonsten bin ich -wie immer- in diesem Bereich für
viele Tips und Anregungen dankbar!

--> http://www.markengrabbing.de/hintergruende.htm


+++ Campaign against Trademarkgrabbing

Da ich immer wieder den Hinweis von amerikanischen Besuchern
erhielt, daß das Thema langsam auch in den USA, England etc.
auf Entsetzen stößt, habe ich zuerst einmal die Startseite ins
Englische übersetzt, damit man sich dort zumindestens anfänglich
informieren kann.
In den nächsten Tagen und Wochen werden dann noch viele
weitere Seiten übersetzt. Hoffentlich erreichen wir somit einen noch
größeren Sturm der Entrüstung, damit unsere 'Forderungen'
entsprechenden Nachdruck erhalten ...

---> http://www.markengrabbing.de/start_e.htm


Also, bitte unterstützt uns weiterhin so tatkräftig wie Ihr es bis dato
getan habt. Wir brauchen noch viel Energie und Resourcen, um
diese Auseinandersetzungen zu gewinnen ...

Berichtet weiterhin in Eurem Freundes- und Bekanntenkreis über
unsere Aktion ... vielleicht wird ja auch noch der ein oder andere
weitere Fernsehsender auf uns aufmerksam und wir können auf
diese Art und Weise eine erhebliche Multiplikation unserer
Reichweite und unserer Unterstützung erreichen.

Es ist erstaunlich, welche durchweg positive Reaktion auf unsere
Aktion nach dem Bericht bei Akte99 bei mir hier eintraf. Dies zeigt
mir, daß wir(!) auf dem richtigen Weg sind ...

Also, bis später und noch viel Spaß und Erfolg am heutigen Tage :-)

Euer
Thorsten Haßiepen




*** Aktion gegen Markengrabbing ***
URL: http://www.markengrabbing.de
Email: info@markengrabbing.de

Newsletter herausgegeben von:
Thorsten Hassiepen, Hauptstrasse 31, D-41844 Wegberg
Tel.: 02434-20687 (V.i.S.d.P.)

Bitte unterstuetzen Sie uns!
Vielen Dank!
***

QuickFile.3.20.lha   biz/dbase  281K+Powerful, fast and easy database.
HydraBBSu12.lha      comm/bbs   203K+HydraBBS. Update V1.11 to V1.12
dvbcontrol.lha       comm/misc  221K+V1.18 D-Box/Mediamaster Settings Editor
ViperDaemon.lha      comm/misc  124K+ARexx-Port for "Speed Viper"-charge mete
SimpleFTP.lha        comm/tcp    82K+SimpleFTP v1.6- Easy to use FTP client!
alienib.lha          comm/www     4K+Cool NewIcons-like buttons for IBrowse
HTTPResume_Ita.lha   comm/www    24K+Italian localization for HTTPResume v1.7
Megasquad.lha        game/2play  53K+2 player combat arena game
pirouworms.lha       game/data  427K+Beautiful Worms Levels
wmachine.lha         gfx/edit    50K+Easy+accurate image-scaling tool
MakeWebPic.lha       gfx/misc    19K+ARexx-Packet to work with Pic-Archiv
bladeenc.lha         mus/edit   471K+BladeEnc V0.82 MP3 Encoder
Prayer2.lha          mus/play   293K+MPEG audio player with fancy GUI and mor
AliciaBoot.lha       pix/boot   300K+Cool Alicia Silverstone Rainboot-config
AliciaBoot2.lha      pix/boot   304K+Cool Alicia Silverstone config #2
alienni1.lha         pix/icon   266K+Cool + Useful Misc NewIcons (NI4 format)
pirouspecial.lha     pix/icon    24K+Fine pOS-like gadget set for Urouhack
BeatleWB.jpg         pix/wb     562K+WB grab 16bit 1600x1200
startupsound.lha     util/boot   20K+Plays a sample at Startup (Cool!);v1.3
MirrorCopy.lha       util/cli    20K+Create/maintain exact copy of dir (V1.4)
dial.lha             util/misc   55K+DTMF dialling over speaker (MUI) +src
vhtvb221.lha         util/virus  19K+Version 2.21 of Virus_Checker II brainfi

Date:    Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:30:00 +0100
From:    Greg greg@gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk
To:      petra.struck@online-club.de
Subject: KOSH News


After a long enforced break, KOSH is finally back! Discussion lists are
running again, work is being done and the website is even being updated
:) New members are welcome as ever, and we welcome all skill levels and
platform advocates.

Current website mirrors are:

http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/
http://kosh.convergence.org/
http://www.gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk/kosh/

About KOSH

KOSH is a new platform being designed and built by the users,
developers, retailers and journalists who will use it. It offers the
potential for real innovation in hardware and software whilst also
allowing for the best use of existing machines. It puts the individual
at the centre of the computing experience and empowers them to create,
work and play in the virtual world. Built on a firm commercial base, it
will be owned by the same users, developers, retailers and journalists
that go to make up its vibrant community.

Thank you,


--------------------------------------------------

Greg
--------------------------------------------------
ssu97gw@reading.ac.uk, greg@gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk

Hingis.lha           biz/dbase  194K+Martina Hingis tennis singles matches in
OpusGIbar.lha        biz/dopus  159K++120 Nice GlowIcons for your DOpus Toolb
MPackMUI.lha         comm/misc   36K+V1.0 MUI interface for MPack V1.5
PalmBackup.lha       comm/misc  163K+1.7 - Backup/Restore/Install for PalmPil
IPScanner.lha        comm/tcp    21K+Shows open TCP/IP Port from a given doma
aipw.lha             comm/www    26K+MUI IP Watcher. Shows your IP+HostName. 
AWebResume.lha       comm/www    61K+Integrate FTP and HTTP resume support in
gng.lha              comm/www   753K+GNU Internet mirroring tool with interfa
HTTPResume_Slo.lha   comm/www     3K+Slovenian localization for HTTPResume v1
MiamiOnline2.lha     comm/www     2K+Load FreePhone Number If Weekend (Miami)
MWI-SDV20.lha        demo/mag   1.2M+SAVE DA VINYL #20 - packmag by Madwizard
adv-ita.lha          dev/amos    77K+Italian adventures creator for AMOSPro
modifile.lha         dev/amos    67K+File modifier written by AMOSPro
SineWriter.lha       dev/asm      5K+Generate fixed point sine/cosine/hybrid 
PureBasic.lha        dev/basic  421K+V1.02 - Brand new powerful programming l
GED_Scripts.lha      dev/c       18K+Useful ARexx Scripts for C Programming
2b_Brush2eMui.lha    dev/e       42K+Changes brushes to E src for MUI
2b_CreativE.lha      dev/e       69K+New AmigaE compiler
TearOff13.3_E.lha    dev/e        8K+E Modules for TearOff MUI classes
jikes-diffs.lha      dev/lang    12K+IBM's fast Java compiler, v1.04 (diffs)
jikes.lha            dev/lang   568K+IBM's fast Java compiler, v1.04 (source)
jikes000.lha         dev/lang   545K+Fast Java compiler, v1.04 (68000 binary)
jikes020-060.lha     dev/lang   539K+Fast Java compiler,v1.04 (68020-060,FPU)
S3DC.lha             dev/mui      4K+Simple MUI example source to compile wit
CDCat-AmiNet32.lha   disk/cdrom 1.7M+CDCat Index Of AmiNet 3-32
FlashROM.lha         disk/cdrom  17K+Amiga tool to change the flash ROM of Pl
GetCDDB.lha          disk/cdrom  46K+Easy download of CD disc id files
MakeCDsvenskaC.lha   disk/cdrom  35K+Swedish catalog for MakeCD V3.2
2b_HfMounterNG.lha   disk/misc   18K+Manager for 'fmsdisk.device' units.
PFSDefragTry.lha     disk/optim   6K+Tries to defrag PFS partitions (37.4), w
musiccharts.txt      docs/anno    0K+Announcment regarding.....
aMiGaPoWeR.lha       docs/hyper  68K+AMiGa=PoWeR French Amiga Magazine
bruce_dickinso.lha   docs/hyper  51K+Bruce Dickinson Guide V1.0
iron_maiden.lha      docs/hyper 135K+Iron Maiden Guide V2.5
AO_0101.lha          docs/mags    9K+AO newsletter - volume 1, issue 1 - 3 Se
AO_0102.lha          docs/mags    9K+AO newsletter - volume 1, issue 2 - 13 S
AO_0103.lha          docs/mags   11K+AO newsletter - volume 1, issue 3 - 17 S
sol_dt.lha           game/board  62K+*Inofficial* German exe for Solitaire v1
Lekis_XTR_Trac.lha   game/data   78K+Tracks for Xtreme Racing
malicemod.lha        game/patch 240K+Malice (Quake TC) bot-mod & fpsbooster
YAGACFix.lha         game/role  197K+Graphic adventure creator (Balrog Soft)F
YAGACFix2.lha        game/role  193K+Graphic adventure creator (Balrog Soft)F
stefadv.lha          game/text   22K+Little italian text adventure
stefadv2.lha         game/text   65K+2nd little italian text adventure
startrekprg.lha      game/think 1.3M+-Star Trek-, Fixes all known bugs
VE-ReadMe.lha        gfx/edit     5K+Visual Eng. - Registeration & Readme
VE-shadow.lha        gfx/edit     5K+Visual Eng. - Shadow v3.34
MakeWebPic.lha       gfx/misc    18K+ARexx-Packet to work with Pic-Archiv
akMPEG2.lha          gfx/show   122K+MPEG player for CyberGfx/AGA V3.01 (68k/
AMP.lha              gfx/show   246K+MPEG1/2, FLI/FLC, AVI, QT player for War
SoftCinema.lha       gfx/show   223K+Ultimate Movie Player (PPC)
Win95MapGB.lha       hard/drivr   8K+Win95 British keymap, CTRL+\ support.
APPE1_2.lha          hard/hack   82K+Use any PlayStation Pad in your Amiga
A4KTower.lha         hard/misc  608K+How to towerise your A4K easily! 
AmiOS35amp.lha       misc/emu    20K+Skin for WinAMP with the Amiga-look
Electrostatic.lha    misc/emu   101K+Atari 2600 emulator/translator. V2.1
warpsnes.lha         misc/emu   359K+SNES Emulator for PowerPC (WarpUP) V4.1
imdbDiff990910.lha   misc/imdb  2.0M+Diffs for the Internet MovieDatabase
TotalCalc1_23.lha    misc/math   48K+Calculator with interesting features
distract.lha         mods/k4k   313K+"Distracted" trance-song by Kure/RNO^WPZ
martys.lha           mods/k4k   262K+"Martysbear" trance-song by Kure/RNO^WPZ
rNO-L004.lha         mods/misc  792K+RNO-LABEL release nO.4
RussianONE.lha       mods/symph 1.3M+Simphonie music module
CDMix10demo.lha      mus/edit    11K+Prog to mix a number of CDDA files. DEMO
sox-12.16-base.lha   mus/edit   267K+Multiformat sound converter (src)
sox-12.16-bin.lha    mus/edit   194K+Multiformat sound converter (bin)
ataruita.lha         mus/midi    20K+Urusei Yatsura italian song
divert12.lha         mus/midi    56K+Divertimento12, GM song by Stefano Regat
divert3.lha          mus/midi    31K+Divertimento3, GM song by Stefano Regatt
felicida.lha         mus/midi    19K+Felicidad, GM song by Stefano Regattin
AmigaOS_bootpi.lha   pix/boot   301K+AmigaOS - BootPicture and cgxbootpic.lib
A4000T_Kosh.jpg      pix/wb     208K+K.O.S.H. Workbench in 16bit
Printout.lha         text/print  15K+Print Zweckform Labels NO. 4738/4739
appxtrakt.lha        util/arc    30K+Little tool to extract Lha,Lzx & Zip fil
Archiver.lha         util/arc   275K+A very good MUIGui for Lha, Lzx...etc.V2
AutoExt.lha          util/arc     3K+Auto Extract Archives (Lzx, Lha, Rar...)
1TouchMac2.lha       util/boot   99K+Boot others startup files with mouse
alba.lha             util/boot   45K+Lock your Amiga with a password 
Rainboot2_67.lha     util/boot  997K+The Ultimate Multimedia Boot v2.67
MirrorCopy.lha       util/cli    20K+Create/maintain exact copy of dir (V1.3)
VersCheck.lha        util/cli   414K+Check your libs,MUI,devs,dtypes,classes,
muitoolkit.lha       util/libs   42K+1.0 - The MUI Toolkit library (FREE)
PortugueseAcce.lha   util/libs    2K+Portuguese accent for translator lib.
bprefs.lha           util/misc   42K+MUI Preference program for Birdie [1.31]
ProPassWord.lha      util/misc  163K+PPW is a FOF securty System 0.17b2
TNM.lha              util/misc   19K+MUI Make ThumbNails and HTML files.
FWCalendar.lha       util/rexx  108K+THE calendar creator for FW & Pagestream
Scion2html.lha       util/rexx   32K+WWW browser HTML's from Scion Genealogy 
AlarmClock.lha       util/time    9K+Alarms by playing a MP3 at a specified t
Millenium.lha        util/time    8K+Millenium-Countdown
vhtvb220.lha         util/virus  62K+Version 2.20 of Virus_Checker II brainfi
VirusExecutor.lha    util/virus 117K+VirusExecutor v1.83
count.lha            util/wb     15K+Recursivly counts the size of files/dirs
JoyTest1_04.lha      util/wb     24K+Test operation of joystick

• Auslesen der Gebührenzähler
• Löschen der Gebührenzähler
• Einfache Requester für Informationen, Fehleranzeige und "Ja/Nein"-Abfragen
• Starten von bis zu 10 Programmen per Shortcut

• Tool zum Auslesen der Gebührenzähler und speichern in eine Logdatei (für Workbench und Shell)
• ARexx-Skript zum Auslesen der Gebührenzähler und eintragen in ein "TurboCalc"-Arbeitsblatt

• Amiga mit Amiga-OS 3.0+
• Installiertes "ViperTools" V1+
• DataBox "Speed Viper"
• Festplatte
• Wenn ARexx-Skripte genutzt werden, muss der ARexx-Interpreter "RexxMast" gestartet sein

• AmiTCP-Genesis
• VoyagerNG
• Microdot-II
• AmFTP
• AmIRC
• AmTelnet
• AmTerm
• NetInfo
• AmTalk
• X-Arc

KOSH [Kommunity Orientated Software Hardware]

Weekly Summary

Week Commencing: 11th September 1999

Number: 026

Mailing List: kosh-general@icon2.iconimaging.net

In the mailing list this week, the following items were discussed.

I'm happy to receive comments on this summary (and corrections if I have made
mistakes). Email me (Bridge) at kosh-scribe@mythicz.u-net.com

Well it has been a while - the last summary was in June when kosh.net vanished.
We now have access to the same kosh-general mailing list but it is located at
kosh-general@icon2.iconimaging.net which in fact is the same as "kosh.net". On
that note it is important to a) send messages to the icon2 address and b) when
replying to messages check your "Send to:" field to make sure it says icon2 as
it has a habit of filling in "kosh.net" which doesn't work (this has been
demonstrated on a number of email packages).

kosh-general@iconimaging.net also works now but the above is still relevant for
people replying to older messages.

I am also posting summary 25 with this one (in a separate file in case you want
to avoid it!) as a reminder of what was going on back in June.

Anyway, on with the show!


a)

Subject: KOSH is back!

Summary of debate: It never really went away, it just went a bit quiet for a
                   while. Please note the following items for KOSH:

                   1) Email address is kosh-general@icon2.iconimaging.net (read
                   the introduction above for more information) BUT
                   kosh-general@iconimaging.net works without all the problems
                   described above so try this instead if you are creating new
                   mail (thanks to Jason Radford for fixing this).

                   2) The KOSH website is located on a mirror at
                   http://www.gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk/kosh/index.html

                   3) The KOSH booklist remains at
                   http://www.snowcrash.u-net.com/kosh/booklist.html and is
                   well worth a look through.

                   4) If you have a query such as "where did that bit of KOSH
                   info go?" then please email me (Bridge) at
                   kosh.scribe@mythicz.u-net.com and I'll either have it to
                   hand or know someone that does.


b)

Subject: New method for summaries

Summary of debate: An alternative interactive internet based way of producing
                   summaries is being looked at. The beginnings of this can be
                   seen at http://www.tele2.co.uk/~flump/kosh/ and mention on
                   the ML of things like Perl and Mason has occurred.

c)

Subject: Second user survey draft

Summary of debate: This is where we left off back in June discussing the User
                   Summary that Greg and co were working on. I'm leaving
                   summarising it off of this summary as it sort of took over
                   back in June and I'm going to keep this summary general:P
                   Suffice to say all is progressing well. Thank to Greg for
                   getting this one started again.


d)

Subject: 3D+ data manipulation

Summary of subject: A bit back I was discussing with Greg Webb and John
                    Chandler my ideas for 3D data manipulation. At the moment
                    we all have cosy spreadsheets that let you enter data on
                    the x and y planes (columns and rows). However in every day
                    usage I find this constricting as I need a visual (and not
                    just mathematical) way to place data on x,y and z planes.
                    While this can be done with conventional spreadsheets just
                    about if you have to y-axis on the resulting graphs it
                    hardly makes for perfection. The idea is that perhaps apps
                    in KOSH can be written to take 3D (or more - although
                    changes over time normally gets stuck on the x-axis in
                    conventional spreadsheets) data sets and be able to view
                    them on screen, rotating through them, using pan, scan and
                    zoom to be able to view the whole thing in any way you
                    want. Now this may only be possible in a "3d" or
                    holographic monitor - but maybe not as the eye can easily
                    be tricked.

                    It was suggested that there may be people out there that
                    actually need nD data manipulation tools - and this could
                    well be a killer app for KOSH.


e)

Subject: RF bugs KOSH?

Summary of debate: A way to make computers transmit RF information by executing
                   code to put data on a bus in a certain pattern has been
                   figured out. The potential for using this to bug people's
                   machines with nothing more complicated than a small software
                   agent and a cheap radio could well be a real problem for
                   KOSH if we decide to implement this type of technology (and
                   why not - after all KOSH is inclusive).

                   What sort of steps could we take to plug this potential
                   problem but still allow this technology to be used in KOSH?

                   It was suggested that a system of public and private keys
                   could be used to plug this hole as a transmitting system
                   would have to send an underlying carrier wave containing a
                   valid key for the recipient machine to "listen" and act on
                   the main message.


f)

Subject: EROS

Summary of debate: An interesting URL of http://www.eros-os.org was mentioned
                   which people may want to take a look at.


g)

Subject: IMPORTANT! All KOSH Working group progress managers and maintaners
         please read.

Summary of debate: A direct cross-list post from Greg that is important for the
                   above to read:

We seem to be having difficulties contacting our working group progress
manager and maintainer of our supporters list, so we haven't been able
to get up-to-date information on either for some time. If you're
involved with a working group or have registered your interest as a
supporter and are not shown here then please get in touch so we can
update the necessary details.

The relevant page to check whether you're registered is
http://www.gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk/kosh/kommunity/index.html and I'd
appreciate any resulting information coming in to me.

Thanks,
Greg


h)

Subject: Open KOSH

Summary of debate: Following an idea myself and others had on the nature of
                   KOSH towards other competing systems, Greg Webb (yep it's
                   that man again!) has compiled an article on this. The
                   general jist is that if KOSH is open about its weaknesses as
                   well as its strengths particularly when at computer shows
                   then we will generate a more honest atmosphere with users
                   whom KOSH is designed to serve (and not control unlike
                   certain other systems out there).

                   To demonstrate openness, an example given is that at a
                   computer show we could line up several computers running
                   (for example) AmigaOS, KOSH, Linux, Windows and MacOS and
                   then demonstrate each to its full potential. The conclusion
                   hopefully will be that KOSH is better than the rest for the
                   user to get the "thing" to do what they want. However if
                   KOSH fouls up and another system turns out better at
                   performing a particular function we admit this openly and go
                   away and fix the problem on KOSH.

                   See the KOSH URL for the full interesting text (and it does
                   make a good read - some very thought provoking things in
                   there).


i)

Subject: KOSH and Convergence International

Summary of debate: John Chandler has given a short KOSH update to James Sears
                   for inclusion in the next Convergence international
                   newsletter. James has offered assistance to KOSH to get
                   around the kosh.net DNS problem (thanks James).


j)

Subject: Re-announcing KOSH


Summary of debate: If anyone has -any- computer contacts that they can email to
                   say "KOSH is back at  and " then please do so.
                   Only thing is that we may want to coordinate this as we
                   could end up bombarding some unsuspecting person. I've
                   emailed Amiga Format (Ben Vost) and am contacting
                   Petra Struck of http://www.amiga-news.de .
                   John has contacted Convergence International (see above).
                   Can anyone else offer up other contacts?


k)

Subject: Fleecy's Lentil

Summary of debate: Fleecy Moss and John Karcher are working on Lentil which (I
                   think from my limited understanding) is a logical and formal
                   language being developed due to reservations about IDL. They
                   are currently designing a Java tool that allows entities to
                   be designed and maintained. More details to follow in the
                   fullness of time.


l)

Subject: Dave Haynie and the Object Sea

Summary of debate: Someone emailed me and told me Dave is still working on the
                   above which is a jolly good thing. (For those doubters out
                   there - see KOSH is coming back to life after... well not
                   really dying in the first place).


m)

Subject: KOSH Owls

Summary of debate: Gary Peake of http://www.OwlNet.net offered the email
                   address kosh-list@owlnet.net (thanks Gary). I don't know if
                   this is up and running or if we are sticking with icon2.
                   Watch this space for more info next week hopefully.


n)

Subject: KOSH FAQs

Summary of debate: Greg Webb has written some but more are needed on anything
                   related (or vaguely related) to KOSH. Offers of assistance
                   to greg@gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk please.


o)

Subject: Multiprocessing KOSH

Summary of debate: A direct quote from Greg here which is interesting:

Amiga.org are reporting that there's a patent application from Amiga
Development on IBM's patents server covering multiprocessor bits:

At least two clusters of CPUs are present in a multiprocessor computer
system. Each CPU cluster has a given number of CPUs, each CPU having an
associated ID such as an ID number. An additional ID number, not
associated with a CPU in the same cluster, is associated with the
opposite CPU cluster that appears to the original cluster as a "phantom"
processor. A round-robin bus arbitration scheme allows ordered ownership
of a common bus within a first cluster until the ID reaches the
"phantom" processor, at which time bus ownership passes to a CPU in the
second cluster. This arrangement is preferably symmetric, so that when a
CPU from the first cluster requests ownership of the bus, it is granted
bus ownership by virtue of the first cluster's appearance to the second
cluster as a "phantom" CPU.

Does this sound useful to our hardware people?

See: http://amiga.org/articles/1999/0901-aipatents.shtml


p)

Subject: New KOSH mirror site

Summary of debate: A new mirror site for KOSH can be found at
                   http://kosh.convergence.org/ and you'll find some space
                   kindly donated by http://www.convergence.org/ This should be
                   quicker than the current location (again thanks to
                   Convergence International for their kind help with this).


q)

Subject: Amiga, KOSH and QNX

Summary of debate: With Amiga declaring that they are not going to make
                   hardware but concentrate on software perhaps should switch
                   the idea of one of the hosts for KOSH being AmigaOS to QNX.
                   If we stay with Amiga which from recent announcements seems
                   to be going to be hosted over other things then we end up
                   with the silly situation of base OS with 2 levels of hosting
                   on top.

                   Please note that this is only in reference to AmigaNG and not
                   "Classic" which a number of people have said we should port
                   to. Also note there is no change with the idea of hosting on
                   Linux and Windows.


r)

Subject: AmiJoe and KOSH

Summary of debate: With Met@Box producing the AmiJoe accelerator for the A4000
                   perhaps KOSH should consider porting a hosted version
                   specifically to take advantage of this and other PPC Amigas?


s)

Subject: Transmeta and KOSH

Summary of debate: Simple question - Is Transmeta of any use to KOSH?


t)

Subject: Team Amiga, Phoenix Platform Consortium and KOSH

Summary of debate: A cross-ML posting with two things of interest:
                   To join Team Amiga ML send an email to Gary Peak TA
                   coordinator at gpeake@texas.net with the subject of
                   "join TA request" and your personal details. All info
                   provided by you on joining will be for internal TA/TAC use
                   only.

                   Secondly here is a snippet from the rest of the email which
                   is very interesting for KOSH although please note that there
                   were mixed feelings about what Phoenix is trying to do:

The Phoenix Platform Consortium will assume responsibility for aid and
recommendation for reference platforms for the Amiga users who wish to
upgrade their present Amigas, as we establish an open migration path
to a new platform. That platform will in spirit and in feel be a new
Amiga experience while incorporating and surpassing the features found
on the desktop elsewhere today.

As information becomes available it will be posted on mailing lists,
newsgroups, and at the following website: http://owlnet.net/phoenix/
which will be up shortly. This announcement is freely repostable.


u)

Subject: KOSH Subscribers

Summary of debate: There is a problem at the moment that some KOSHans are not
                   receiving emails via the icon2 email address we are using.
                   Obviously this creates a problem. Please can you therefore
                   email Greg Webb at greg@gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk and let him
                   know that you are getting the emails. We can then coordinate
                   a "rescue package" to contact other KOSHans who have been
                   dropped off of the list (by comparing the respondents to
                   Greg with the kosh-general@kosh.net ML subscribee list that
                   we have).


v)

Subject: Why KOSH?

Summary of debate: I seem to be quoting a lot in full this week but why not -
                   its not as though there have been many summaries to read
                   since June. Here is a quote from Greg Webb (does this guy do
                   anything but KOSH? - all credit due to him!) which I
                   particularly like:

KOSH isn't just a software engineering project. The thing that really
sets us apart and makes me particularly fond of this project - for those
who hadn't noticed ;) - is the ideology behind it. We're not in this
just to produce something fantastic, we're in it to produce something
for the community. So, rather than a more traditional corporate
structure, we're set up so that KOSH is owned (when these considerations
actually mean anything) by a combination of those who've developed it
(as in us guys), those who own KOSH boxes and those who sell KOSH boxes.
No corporate investors running this for financial gain, just a community
of people who want to avoid the horrific problems that the Amiga
platform has suffered. So, we're set up to do everything we can to make
that impossible.

Greg


w)

Subject: New hardware from IBM

Summary of debate: IBM recently announced availability of PPC motherboard
                   designs. This should help start up Mac clones again (with
                   MacOS X on UNIX/NeXT). Motorola have announced PPC G5 (64
                   and 32 bit products, new pipeline, new bus topology, 2GHz+)
                   and G6. This hardware could be used for KOSH systems.


x)

Subject: TransAM/One

Summary of debate: Interest was expressed on the list for Met@Box to start up
                   the TransAM/One project again as this would present a very
                   interesting hardware opportunity for KOSH (noting it would
                   not be the only hardware solution - inclusive but not
                   exclusive...)






From:     "Colin-Stewart Bridge Deady" csbdeady@mythicz.u-net.com
Date:     18 Sep 99 11:52:33 +0000
Subject:  [KOSH] Summary 25 to go with 26
To:       kosh-general@iconimaging.net
Reply-To: kosh-general@iconimaging.net

As promissed here is summary 25 to go with 26 so we can remember what
was going on in June...

-Bridge


-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mythicz.u-net.com | DT-MUD:sunsite.auc.dk:4242
Amigan | Vegan | KOSHan - Go for a swim in the object sea,
http://www.gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk/kosh/index.html
Storm of the Eye RPG GUI-PBEM http://www.2bp.com/


-----------------------------------------------------------
KOSH [Kommunity Orientated Software Hardware]

Weekly Summary

Week Commencing: 12th June 1999

Number: 025

Mailing List: kosh-general

In the mailing list this week, the following items were discussed. Please do
not email the scribe regarding any of these topics, it is not his job to answer
these questions but merely to report  the topics of conversation. If you have
any queries about this summary, please email ben@kosh.net, stating the Summary
Number, and Mailing List Name, and he will try to answer your queries.

a)

Subject: Community involvement in Linux - an example for KOSH?

Summary of debate: Linux stresses community involvement and feedback. See
                   http://www.kde.org - from the website can be seen where KOSH
                   could go in terms of feed back mechanisms (documentation,
                   FAQ, wish list, bug reports, etc).


b)

Subject: KOSH Installation

Summary of debate: It was pointed out that KOSH being easy to install and
                   working first time will present a good first impression to a
                   user. It was also mentioned that subsequent usage and
                   alteration of the system should also maintain the good
                   impression.


c)

Subject: Second User Survey Draft

Summary of debate: The KOSH Survey WG released the second version of its User
                   Survey Questionnaire. Changes incorporated included an
                   additional section on disabilities and a note that personal
                   questions are completely optional and various other
                   amendments.

                   See the email from Greg Webb (greg@gpwebb.freeserve.co.uk)
                   date 14/06 and entitled "[KOSH] Second survey draft" for the
                   full text.

                   This again generated a large number of replies with many
                   constructive comments on the survey. Even though the survey
                   is developing very well a number of areas such as the
                   personal questions section were felt in need of further
                   development. Even so, a big thanks to all the hard work that
                   the Survey WG have put in to this project.

                   One key point for the future is that there will most likely
                   be a "Developers Survey" and therefore the one we are
                   creating at the moment does not need to cover everything.
                   However we do note that developers are users and vice versa.

                   I won't detail all the different comments on the second
                   draft as I'm sure the Survey WG will be taking their own
                   notes and I don't want to take up the entire summary with
                   it. If you're interested in the work of that group please
                   feel free to get involved!

c)

Subject: Volunteers to translate the survey to other languages.

Summary of debate: As well as Thomas Jensen offering to do a Danish translation
                   of the survey, Philippe 'Elwood' Ferucci has volunteered to
                   do a French version. Thanks to both of you.

                   If anyone else would be able to translate the Survey into
                   other languages when it is completed please would they make
                   themselves known to kosh-general@kosh.net


d)

Subject: Deadlocking in KOSH

Summary of debate: The following questions were posed:
                   "How will Deadlock (resource circularity, mutual exclusion,
                   hold&wait) be dealt with?  In current OSes it is not a
                   serious problem because there are not many places it can
                   occur - but in a sea of objects all offering services, the
                   possibility for deadlock must increase 1000 (or a million?)
                   fold... [Without this] KOSH...won't work for more than a few
                   minutes before the entire system freezes up solid under
                   heavy load".

                   Apparently Unix ignores deadlock and hopes it will go away,
                   working on the grounds that it does not happen all that
                   often. Hopefully a better solution will be found in  KOSH?

                   There are plenty of ways to prevent deadlocks from ever
                   ocurring by being careful about how you hand out resources
                   and checking with process what resources they could
                   conceivably need.

                   Alternatively getting rid of "hold & wait" just like in
                   current filing systems could be the way to solve this. The
                   OS can be set up so that, if a process wants some resources,
                   it has to give up others.


                   A deadlocking object in the resource manager was proposed.


e)

Subject: Atari computers and MiNT

Summary of debate: It was mentioned that those using Atari computers now use
                   MiNT which has multitasking and is POSIX compliant. See
                   http://www.altos.org.uk/mint/index.html which has a guide to
                   FreeMiNT. MiNT is a hybrid of Unix and TOS. Perhaps this has
                   some ideas that are relevant to KOSH.


f)

Subject: KOSH website location

Summary of debate: Just in case you missed it, the most up-to-date version of the
                   website is currently at http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ssu97gw/kosh/

                   It should move to kosh.net/ soonish.


g)

Subject: Developing users

Summary of debate: In reference to the User Survey it was mentioned that
                   developers and users are often the same people. If we could
                   make it so that in KOSH every user could behave as a
                   developer at any time we would make the system much more
                   accessible. We would thus avoid creating an  unnatural
                   separation and scare people into a division between the two.

                   We must be careful not to scare off people who just want to
                   be users.


h)

Subject: EPOC32

Summary of debate: The Psion 5 keyboard being nice to type on compared to other
                   palmtops was mentioned and this generated a comment that
                   EPOC32 has some nice things in it that KOSH may like to look
                   at (scribe's note: presumably EPOC32 is an OS and not a
                   keyboard though).


i)

Subject: KOSH FAQ

Summary of debate: "Our Greg" has asked he could have some questions to put
                   into the KOSH FAQ please. Oh and Frequently given answers
                   would be nice as well.


j)

Subject: Sheep and #HHHHHH

Summary of debate: There was lots of discussion on sheep and dodgy HTML code
                   involving #HHHHHH which gives lots of interesting results
                   depending on where you see it - oh and watching the Simpsons
                   when one should be working on one's studies was also
                   mentioned... and that's all I'm saying about this:P